Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Movies Discussion » Discuss the Movies » The Hobbit film
<< First2021222324Last >>
Author Topic:
~nólemë~
Fan Creations Admin & Creations Forum Moderator
Posts: 10249
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: June 23, 2011 09:55
I must say I'm worried about the same thing as Ilandir; that they won't show Gwaihir speaking for fear that it would be sneered at as childish by critics and some of the audience. (I know of a number of people who rolled their eyes at "talking trees" in LotR.) :rolleyes:
I think I'd accept a silent Gwaihir better than silent spiders, though. I can always imagine Gwaihir keeps his silent dignity by Manwë's orders, whereas the spiders not hissing insults would just make them look like stupid overgrown insects in my eyes. Not to mention the trolls- I'd definitely love to hear them speak rather than just make sounds as in LotR.

Yay, first photos! I love the second and third one, Gandalf looks awesome, and so does Bilbo! I had some doubts about Freeman, but so far he looks promising. ^ ^
But LOL, I am sure it's just the lights, but the black-haired dwarf in the first image looks to me like a twin of PJ's corsair character from RotK.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
Aegor
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 984
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: June 23, 2011 10:48
I think the trolls will be the easiest of the bunch and that we can expect to hear them talking.

As for Gwaihir and the spiders, dunno but I think I might prefer to have them stay silent. Ents are after all more human-like and they only had one of them talking. I'm not sure how serious a wider audience would have been able to take them if we got to hear them all talk at Entmoot. But maybe PJ will find some way to make it work

The pics are fantastic, Martin and Ian both look perfect.
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: June 24, 2011 02:21
I agree that the trolls definitely have to speak. I agree with noleme about Gwaihir's silence as a sign of dignity too. Now, regarding the spiders hmmm, I don't know really. I don't mind if they talked or are silent - I'll have to wait what PJ comes up with!

Regards, the photos, I can't help thinking how cool the dwarves (whatever we can see of them) look. The one in the middle strikes me as being Thorin (even though I always imagined him with white hair and beard - still, he looks awesome) - not to mention the coolness of Gandalf and Bilbo!

[Edited on 24/6/2011 by Ilandir]
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: June 26, 2011 06:21
More 'Hobbit' pictures!
http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=31328
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Atara_Aduial
Council Member
Posts: 1
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 06, 2011 02:43
I've heard a rumor that David Tenant might be in The Hobbit. Is this true? Does anyone know? 'Cause if it is, I might just have a double-fangirl-spaz-attack.
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 06, 2011 07:15
I believe he had been considered or rumoured as one of the candidates for the Elf-King, but it's not true. Sorry.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 5947
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 07, 2011 06:24
Re spiders talking; Ungoliant did so I don't see why Mirkwood spiders shouldn't, they were related weren't they? Shelob didn't talk but then she didn't get out much. It wouldn't be The Hobbit if they didn't, and of course the trolls must talk or the scene wouldn't make much sense.

As to elves, I would imagine it's an unique and difficult challenge to an actor. I think only Galadriel was convincing in the film. It takes a particular bearing, presence, grace .... err ... y'know, elvishness. Just my 2 penn'orth.
Hangman Helper program
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 08, 2011 09:18
As a side note: new Dwarf images! Oin and Gloin! Have a look:
http://movies.yahoo.com/photos/movie-stills/gallery/3491/#photo0
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Aegor
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 984
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 09, 2011 10:07
Gloin and Oin look fantastic, a couple of solid grumpy dwarves. I'm guessing the first 3 dwarves they showed us will serve more as a comedy relief, I still haven't decided whether I like their look.

But what's even better they also uploaded the 2nd production video on PJ's facebook page.
spotted
Council Member
Posts: 28
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 09, 2011 12:11
luved the dwarves!!!!! the desighn team really got creative in showing their personalities! on the talking/no talking list:

trolls: they kinda have to talk, eaven if you can't understand them (hushed rumbling voices or captions like they do for elvish)

Gwaihir: eaven if he only speaks once or twice or out of hearing range, i think it adds that magical feeling

spiders: they need to talk. i imagine it like the ring where you can't really understand it, but you can tell it's more than just a random hiss
Aowyn
Resident Shieldmaiden
Posts: 1232
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 11, 2011 10:06
Shelob didn't talk but then she didn't get out much.


Maybe it's true what they say, the right preschool is everything. If only....
~nólemë~
Fan Creations Admin & Creations Forum Moderator
Posts: 10249
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 11, 2011 10:51
Ungoliant did so I don't see why Mirkwood spiders shouldn't


I didn't get the impression from LotR that PJ was a fan of assigning an actual speech to creatures who were supposed to talk in the books (Gwaihir, most of the Orcs and Uruks, the Ringwraiths, the Ents at the moot...) True, some of the LotR reviewers considered even what he left (Treebeard) ridiculous and childish ("some talking tree"). So I guess the team's advisors anticipated this and deliberately avoided letting certain characters speak lest they make LotR a fairytale in some viewers' eyes.
Hence my doubts about The Hobbit - true, it's more of a children's movie than LotR was, but I bet they'll aim for older audience as well, and will want to avoid the "talking animals are for kiddies" myth.
I don't personally care for the speeches all that much, except for the troll trio. I'd be so disappointed if those didn't argue in words.

I'm not sure it's explicitly written somewhere that the Mirkwood spiders are related to Shelob or Ungoliant... though I presume they can be.

The Oin and Gloin photo was good, but I was less happy about the previous one. Too grotesque for my tastes.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 14, 2011 08:58
Just checked out the newest dwarf pictures - they just seem to keep getting weirder, huh?

I loved the pic of Oin and Gloin, but I've been less fond of the rest of them. Their weapons seem a little TOO fantasy too me - like someone pulled them out of a video game.
LadyBrooke
Council Member
Posts: 618
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 14, 2011 09:09
Yes they do.... I agree with you, out of all the ones so far, Oin and Gloin are the only ones I think look like Tolkien dwarves. On the other hand, not only do the weapons seem too fantasy like on the others, but I can't imagine that there was the necessary hairspray in M-E to make the other hairstyles work.
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 14, 2011 09:31
Hahaha! That's too funny about the hairspray... However, I will say, I've learned that the easiest way for me to achieve Eowyn hair is the way she probably would have - sleeping in braids, and not washing it for a few days...

I can't figure out if Bombur's beard necklace is actually growing out of him at some point or if he's saving it until the crew reaches Locks of Love...

[Edited on 14/7/2011 by asea_aranion]
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 18, 2011 04:18
Okay, so I JUST noticed this, because I just saw a high-res version of the photo:

http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/bifur-williamkircher.jpg

What in the heck is sticking out of Bifur's forehead? I'm pretty sure Tolkien never mentioned anything about any of the dwarves getting a lobotomy...

[Edited on 18/7/2011 by asea_aranion]
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 18, 2011 08:31
Well.... :twitch:
I have to say they're looking more like orcs than dwarves. I imagine he has quite a headache. :rolleyes:

I think I may see these movies once and that's it. Depending on how good they are overall I'm not sure if I will buy them when they come out on dvd.
This isn't saying 'this is Tolkien's story' to me, it's saying 'this is a gory Peter Jackson money making film'.
Sorry. But that's my opinion.
EDIT: I really don't like TORN. Nothing but flame wars and stubborn idiots bashing each other because they don't like the look of the dwarves. I was however amused to see that several people also agreed with me that they look like Kliingons.

[Edited on 18/7/2011 by starofdunedain]
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 18, 2011 09:56
I went over to TORN as well because they have a much more active forum and I wanted to see what the general reaction in the fan community has been, but you're right, a lot of the posts are just people bickering.

I'd be really interesting in discussing the weaponry we see them pictured with, with someone who is a little more knowledgable about weapons than I am. I have a real appreciation for medieval weaponry (okay, this is fantasy, but fantasy in the style of historic weaponry that we're familiar with) but my education on the matter isn't as thorough as I'd like it to be.

The reason I'm interested, however, is because some of the weaponry they're holding doesn't look like it would be practical or useful in battle. There's an awful lot of interstingly shaped pointed objects, but I'm not sure how they'd hold up and how they'd function once they're put into motion...
~nólemë~
Fan Creations Admin & Creations Forum Moderator
Posts: 10249
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 18, 2011 10:46
Oh dear, now I saw the closeup and I must agree, this is extremely weird... I don't feel like checking the Encyclo for dates now - but even supposing Bifur took part in the battle of Dimrill Dale and suffered a head wound, this um... treatment... makes him look like Frankenstein or something. And I only thought he looked like he had a skunk tail on his head... :rolleyes:
One can't seem to win with most of these dwarves - either a dwarf is bald, or has a weird hairdo.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
LadyBrooke
Council Member
Posts: 618
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 18, 2011 11:35
Checked dates...Bifur date of birth is not given, but we know that Thorin fought there, at age 53, and he is the oldest of the company, but was considered to be a young dwarf at that point. As far as I can tell, the youngest dwarf fighting in the battle was Dain Ironfoot, who was only 31. Going by the fact that there's a 17 year gap between Thorin and the next oldest member of the company - Balin - who is only 4 or 5 (it would depend on his birthdate...which I can't find. ) years older then Dain, I would say that it might have been possible for him to be there, but in light of the ages involved, it would be a stretch and unlikely.

I agree....there doesn't seem to be a happy medium.
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 19, 2011 03:17
The small blurb that was published with the photos states that they were descended from coal and iron workers... maybe an accident in the mines?

Either way, I don't like the idea much... I think it looks silly, and fantasy or not, you don't get an axe/pick/hunk of metal lodged that far in your head without some degree of brain damage. Maybe the idea was to make them look tough and badass, but this may be missing the mark...
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 21, 2011 09:45
No, I think you hit it right on the mark asea_aranion. They probably want to make the movies more 'badass' in order to appel to the widest audience possible. People probably can't handle a dwarf having an actual realistic personality. :rolleyes:
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 21, 2011 10:12
As you said starofdunedain, it's probably for the "wider audience" which I think is only normal. I mean, their target is not just the fans after all but everyone from children to old people who are just looking for a good story to watch.

Of course, there should be a balance between making the films accessible to the audience and keeping them faithful to the book.
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Aegor
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 984
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 24, 2011 10:11
After seeing the 3rd production video I have no remaining doubts about Dwarves - they are phenomenal. They look great on screen and they feel great. And even though I would change the looks of 2 of them I think overall this was well handled. Especially considering how hard the task was to make them so the average viewer would be able to tell them apart.

Let's not forget that a good deal of people in LotR confused Aragorn and Boromir, Faramir and Eomer not to mention Saruman from Sauron. This are after all 13 bearded blokes we have to tell apart, and most of them weren't described in that much detail in the book.
~nólemë~
Fan Creations Admin & Creations Forum Moderator
Posts: 10249
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 24, 2011 09:51
But they'll confuse the names/characters anyway - what's the point then? Either they stick to canon and the average member of audience would speak about "the guy in a blue cape and white beard" etc., or they send canon on its merry way and continue with fangirls and general audience in mind. The people will then speak about "the guy with the funny triangular hairstyle", hardly about a particular character.
I'm sorry but out of the two choices, I prefer sticking to canon. I feel that the looks of most of the dwarves are overdone out of a desire to please fangirls and average audience, but the team would also do well to remember that it's the constant fanbase and not a common audience member that views movies repeatedly, buys the extended DVDs etc.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 25, 2011 03:02
I'm with ~nólemë~ here. I think that, with that many characters, there's going to be mix-ups anyway. People will probably pick out a couple favorites to remember, and the rest will be indistinguishable. I think that canon should be preserved for those of us who will appreciate it, and that the storytelling, if done properly, would be enough to hold the attention of so-called "wider audiences".

Aegor has a good point about people confusing Aragorn and Boromir or Faramir and Eomer (Though really, I don't get that one at all) but I don't see that as a reason to disregard canon, I rather see that as a concession that needs to be made - not everyone is going to go into a film like that with the attention span required to keep all of the characters straight. However, that does not mean that they won't enjoy the movie.

The first time I showed the Lord of the Rings films to my boyfriend, (who had never read the books) he did have a little trouble keeping track of who was who, and where they were from, but by the time the movies were finished, he had still loved them in spite of the fact that he couldn't remember everyone's name. And he was someone who had gone into it expecting to hate it, because he thought they were kind of dumb and was only watching them because I liked them so much. When you look at it that way, I see no reason NOT to perserve canon as much as possible, because the people who are going to be confused will be confused regardless of how much you try to cater to them, (and you may even confuse them more - more than once, my boyfriend turned to ask me "Wait, why did they do that? Why did they go there" and the only answer I had was "I don't know, because they didn't do that in the book".) and the people who are going to undertand it are coming to see the story they know and love.

However, I know that there is great economic benefit to pandering to the tweens with a few "hot" dwarves, so I'm hardly surprised that it has happened. It just bums me out that things that were explicitly described are being so drastically changde...
spotted
Council Member
Posts: 28
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 29, 2011 01:57
For once, I am not shreiking in delight!!! That pictur showed the fatal flaw of hollywood, trying to catch the public eye.

I can try to be optimistic and say we don't know what they were shooting and sutch, but I can't eaven convince myself!!! The details of the story behind this could be faded into the backdrop as just another tiny detail without reference ( like the rat trap shop in Minis Tirith). But if he turns out to be some all brawns but really dillusional charactor because of the head wound, I will be really disappointed. I mean, no one really noticed it until it was blown up right? Mabey, we just need to wait and see.

Once again, I'm holding onto hope here.
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 29, 2011 05:22
I'm in complete agreement with noleme and asea_aranion.
What's the point in telling the story if you're going to change so many things? Real people do not look like that without costumes and make up. Let's believe for a moment that Middle-earth is real, like so many of us would love it to be.
In Middle-earth, everyday dwarves would look like people, not some fantasy characters. They would wear weather-stained cloaks and boots, and not have bizarre hairstyles. I think the design team and Peter Jackson should take a look at Alan Lee's illustrations and even Michael Hauge's, in those illustrations the dwarves look believable, like people.

I'm just wondering if they can't have the dwarves look practical, if they can't stick to the story and resort to hollywood's style, what's the point in making these movies other than money? Please excuse my pessimistic rant, despite what I say I think they looked okay in the videos and think I'll still see the movie. I'm just not too thrilled.

[Edited on 30/7/2011 by starofdunedain]

[Edited on 30/7/2011 by starofdunedain]
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 29, 2011 09:41
This thing with Alan Lee's drawing is that, although they look as Dwarves should be, there copycats of each other! They very similar and no distinct features really exist. I'm guessing PJ and Co. wanted to create this distinction through their appearance, thus allowing the audience to identify more with specific characters
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 30, 2011 06:09
I suppose so, I just wish they didn't have to make the appearances so extreme!

Does anyone know if Smaug is confirmed? I think Jeremy Irons was a name that was mentioned?
LinweSingollo
Movies & Casting Mod, Resident Hobbit & Frodo's Footstool
Posts: 3292
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 30, 2011 10:03

Does anyone know if Smaug is confirmed? I think Jeremy Irons was a name that was mentioned?


Benedict Cumberbatch has been confirmed as Smaug.
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
LinweSingollo
Movies & Casting Mod, Resident Hobbit & Frodo's Footstool
Posts: 3292
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: July 30, 2011 10:43
As long as I'm at it, I've posted a list of all the confirmed actors (that I know of) in a separate thread in the topped threads for your convenience.
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: August 01, 2011 03:24
I suppose so, I just wish they didn't have to make the appearances so extreme!


That's my thought exactly. I mean, nobody decided to give Faramir dreadlocks so that we remembered which brother was which... Haha.

These people are all going to look different because this isn't an animated film, it's live action, and you've got real people who don't look anything like each other, so they're going to look different in their costumes too. Many of them are supposed to have different colored cloaks, different colored beards, and different body types that would have helped differentiate them as well.

I'm actually sad to see the beards missing or shortened in many cases, because I feel like that would have been a great opportunity to provide some identifying features for the dwarves with intricate braiding and such. Not to mention that a dwarf without a beard is so un-Tolkien. I can heard Gimli now... "Not the beard!"
Ilandir
Council Member
Posts: 475
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: August 01, 2011 05:10
That's my thought exactly. I mean, nobody decided to give Faramir dreadlocks so that we remembered which brother was which... Haha.

That's because they were never seen together so the audience could distinguish who was who (except for the Extended editions of course)
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Post RE: The Hobbit film
on: August 01, 2011 07:10
That's my thought exactly. I mean, nobody decided to give Faramir dreadlocks so that we remembered which brother was which... Haha.

That's because they were never seen together so the audience could distinguish who was who (except for the Extended editions of course)

Merry and Pippin spend all of Two Towers separate from Sam and Frodo, but I've still heard the occasional "Wait, weren't they JUST in the forest?" Hahaha.

And really, the same could go for Aragorn and Boromir, or Merry and Pippin, etc. None of them were given any sort of extreme look for the sake of distinguishment. Did the hobbits all look different? Yes. Did they all still look like hobbits? Yes. I'm sure plenty of people DO mix up Merry and Pippin, and I'm sure there are just as many of us that say "That's silly, Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan don't even look alike, and they wear completely different colors".

Likewise, I'm sure people will mix up the dwarves, and even if they did not look as extremely different as they do, I'm sure many would say "That's silly, Fili wears a blue hood and Dwalin wears a green one."

[Edited on 1/8/2011 by asea_aranion]
<< First2021222324Last >>
Members Online
Forum – Council of Elrond

Forum

Print Friendly, PDF & Email