That's just a key distinguishing feature of a race, and I don't feel like I'm looking at Middle-earth characters when looking at PJ's version of Dwarves. I seriously hope he reconsiders yet.

As I previously stated, it seems difficult now to turn back, especially after two or three months of filming. What I AM expecting though is that the other Dwarves (i.e. Dain, the army during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, and those at the Bo5A are pure Tolkien Dwarves ... let's hope!

I see no point in this repeated discouraging others with how something is impossible or unlikely etc. I would appreciate if you stopped doing that. Thanks.

but I don't expect Bombur to mysteriously grow a beard instead of what appear to be rather insane muttonchops. Haha.

Hahaha! Or maybe there is some newly invented backstory about how Bombur was once a fierce dwarven warrior but he had an awful encounter with a dragon who burnt all the beard off his chin, and it never grew back, so now he defiantly grows his muttonchops as long as he can and never cuts them, but rather braids them and wears them around his neck. But the initial deep depression at the loss of his beard caused him to get very, very fat.

but I think that instead of dwelling on the negatives, I think it would be more fun to try and think of the potential positives.

And I see no point in repeating that there might still be a chance that they change their appearances. And after all, those are the facts, no use denying what's in front of our eyes.

---------- "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit

I'm a little obsessed with the dwarf sitting next to Gimli... the one with the massive forehead. Can we call him Gigwit? (Gimli is great... who is THAT?)

Hehe! Gigwit that's great! I love those dwarves, though you see the problem ... they all look too much alike (i.e. it's hard to know who's who)

Judging from the poll that's been on TORN for a while now I don't think you can count on fan intervention to grow these Dwarves a beard. 44% think they are perfect and 42% think they look really good. Only 2.5% really dislike them and I don't think that will be enough.

But I think the word canon is a poor argument here. In the Hobbit Tolkien certianly didn't describe the majority of dwarves in much detail. Dori, Nori, Ori, Oin and Gloin are all introduced in a single sentence and all that was stated was their cloak color and thier belts. And talking about character development, did anyone really had an arc in the book, except Thorin? I love the Hobbit but if we'd stick trully to every word that was written we'd have slightly tipsy singing Elves and talking spiders which would make for a very silly movie. I'm sure there will be enough burping, ale drinking and battle shouting from the dwarves to make them feel real, even with their modest beards.

In LotR Pippin and Legolas were done vastly different than in the book, yet nobody seems to mind them.

In fact, I was going to post something similar from the TORN site, but it seems that mentioning that site is forbidden here - cos some people dislike it ... lol!

True, but I don't see movie-Pippin missing furry feet and curly hair, and I don't see movie-Legolas missing pointy ears and stature.
Again, if your point wasn't directed at the non-beards, please feel free to ignore my comments.

Looking at canon, I find the loss of furry feet would be a much much lesser change that the major personallity change Pippin got.

But what I'm saying here is that beards alone don't make dwarves, and they can work just as well without them (providing there's a proper voice, stance, attitude... which I'm sure there will be).

All we have to go on is a few clips of Bag End, Trollshaws, and Riddles in the Dark (which would be fun to discuss if anyone wants to shift away from the dwarves' publcity stills for a moment! Haha)

Yes, let's do that!

I think Andy Serkis would be a good choice. He convinced me he was both Gollum and the Witch-King ... and a couple of orcs. So I can't imagine why he can't also play the three trolls - also motion-captured!

I was thinking that too - I assume the trolls will be mo-capped, and Andy Serkis is kind of the poster child for mo-cap performances. Haha. I suppose they could just be entirely digital, but either way, I think Andy would be an awesome choice for voices. Maybe something similar to the "We ain't 'ad nothin' but maggoty bread for three stinkin' days" orc's voice.

Hehe true!

What I'm mainly concerned about this scene is continuity. We've all seen from the FOTR extended edition the three trolls. They clearly look like they've been turned into stone during their argument (as was in the book). However, with the introduction of this "fight scene" (according to the production video), I was wondering how they'll manage to make the trolls fall into that "talkative" position after the fighting .... unless they ignore the FOTR scene completely and change the outcome ...

As far as the battle sequence that apparently now takes place at Trollshaws, I don't think that the trolls arguing and the dwarves fighting them are necessarily mutually exclusive. It could be that instead of going one by one and having a bag thrown over their heads, they come all at once and fight it out, but STILL end up with bags over their heads, and caught. I really hope that it ends up happening something like that.

Yes I think that's a very good deduction, I hope they keep it that way.

With regards to the Freeman/Holm continuity, I do agree that there's that one scene in FOTR will Ian Holm as Bilbo, but it somehow doesn't bother me that Freeman will take his place - unlike other continuity details.

And to go back to the dwarves and the trolls... Based on the way they're frozen, I could almost imagine one (or maybe two) of them having a bagged up dwarf in their hand when they turn to stone. Again, I know a lot of people are against making it silly, but it would be a funny gag if perhaps Bombur was in the hand of the troll with the slightly closed hand and had to be pried out. (With difficulty, of course, since he's so fat.)

Yeah, I'm sure they'll put in these bits and pieces (and tweaks) just to lighten up the mood abit

To circle back to your continuity comments of earlier, I'm also interested in what is going to happen with the weapons of the dwarves. They seem to have put a good deal of effort into weapons that, if we're following the book, may never have even existed, and if they did, certainly not for long.

Perhaps the reasoning behind the battle sequence in the Trollshaws was to allow the dwarves an opportunity to actually use their weapons before the goblins take everything from them?

Yeah I thought about the weapons as well. It could be as you mentioned regarding the action at Trollshaws. And probably, they would be given a few weapons by Beorn during their stay there - because it would look funny having only Gandalf, Thorin and Bilbo with a sword and the rest are all empty handed!

[Edited on 26/8/2011 by Ilandir]

Another thing I noticed is that, while everyone in the photos is armed, I recall no mention of them having weapons at Bilbo's. Fili and Kili have a supply of tools, and everyone has instruments with them. (I always wondered what happened to those... were they left in Hobbiton? Were they brought along and lost to the Goblins? It says that the ponies were heavily laden with packages, but all it mentions that was in them is food and dry clothes.)

I find the weapons thing interesting for a variety of reasons.

A) There is no mention of any of them weilding weapons except for Thorin taking Orcrist from the troll cave.
B) When Thorin fights the trolls, he grabs a branch from the fire, which would lead me to believe that he was otherwise unarmed, otherwise, wouldn't it make more sense to go after them with a sword/axe/spear?
C) Even presuming that they DID all have weapons when they left the Shire, they lost all of their gear when they were kidnapped by the goblins. Whatever they had when they left Hobbiton is lost VERY early in the story. Thorin is the only dwarf who draws a weapon during the encounter with the goblins, and it is Orcrist.
D) They are given bows and arrows by Beorn, but these don't make it past Mirkwood.
E) When they arrive in Laketown, they are asked to lay down their arms, and they respond that they have none, and it is stated that their knives were taken by the elves.

All of this leads me to believe that the dwarves in these photos are probably armed with weapons found when they reached the Lonely Mountain, since they seem to have set off with gear more appropriate for travel, hunting, and mining than battle. (Which makes sense, seeing as they never meant to launch any kind of frontal assault against the dragon.) This is actually a comforting thought because it clears up a lot of things that otherwise seem to not match the book... there's still the opportunity to put them in their proper colored hoods and cloaks at the beginning of the story, and the items found at the Lonely Mountain were not all of dwarven make, so that can explain the very varied look of the weaponry, which was compiled from all the launds Smaug destroyed (I've always wondered how he carried it all back though... I usually don't picture dragons with opposable thumbs! Haha)

spotted:

Practicality: some of theise weapons look impressive, but I couldnt see how it would work out in action. (mabye they want the orcs to laugh to death?)

The weapons I'm doubtful about in regards to practicality are Kili's sword (wouldn't the narrow bit in the middle lessen the strength and stability of the weapon and make it more prone to losing its shape?) Thorin's "axe" (Is that even what it is? the angle of the blade seems very impractical and likely to get stuck) and Ori and Fili's swords (again, very strange angles at the tip of the blade... while Fili's may have some practical application, Ori's seems at VERY high risk for getting stuck in a body if ever used with a stabbing motion)

spotted:

2. Size: with all weapons, you need to actually lift it. Seeing as dwraves are pretty strong, wemay not think it a problem. However, if it was bulky and you needed to carry it on a long journy, which as we have pointed out shouldnt be neccicairy in the first place, it willbe more a pain than a help.

This is a good point as well, considering many of these weapons are QUITE large and heavy, and we have to remember that the dwarves, while they are in possession of their weapons, are traveling by pony. Would some of the larger hammers and spears be the most practical for travel on ponies?

Beorn gives them bows and arrows,

Yes he does, but I thought they might add that little extra arsenal and include shiny axes and cool blades!

With regards to your previous posts, I do believe that they need some sort of weapons - even though they seem not to have any particular ones when they start their adventure. But it makes more sense to give them something to wield - considering they're embarking on one of the most dangerous quests, you'd think they would carry something for their own safety! hehe

What I seem to find somewhat impractical is Bifur's weapon - it's kind of a sword blended with a spear of some sort. It doesn't seem well balanced due to the heavy weight put on top of it - so I'm not sure how easy it would be to wield it well.

And Glamdring has never quite looked grand enough to have been the sword of the king of Gondolin... but that's neither here nor there (again, I assume that's probably a result as not referencing The Hobbit when shooting LotR).

Yes that's one of the things I'm looking forward to see. Will they make Glamdring glow or not to keep it in line with the Trilogy?

Also, I'm not sure about this, but it seems that Orcrist has dwarf runes on it ... is this correct? I don't remember reading in the book of any dwarf runes on the sword and after all, they were made by Elves and not Dwarves, so how can that be? Or have I got it all wrong somewhere?

Yes The Hobbit notes that there are runes (thus the Certar not the Tengwar) on Orcrist.

Interestingly, for the 1960 Hobbit Tolkien attempted to correct the problem of why Gandalf couldn't read the runes, explaining in the revision that there was dried blood obscuring the writing.